Sen. Graham confident Mueller will be allowed to do his job

This is a rush transcript from “The Story,” November 8, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, HOST: So, breaking tonight, we are about to get a very important update on the vote out in Arizona on the vote count in Arizona, where about 17,000 votes separate the congresswoman Martha McSally and Kyrsten Sinema. We’re still waiting for the outcome in this.

Nearly 500,000 votes. A number of them, absentee, mail-ins that were compiled in Maricopa County are being counted as we speak. We’re going to break in as soon as we get that update, and let you know if there is a race to call in Arizona, and we will let you know.

Also tonight, there is a tragedy that is unfolding in California, as a hero sheriff’s sergeant and 11 young people out for a night of fun, were gunned down by a crazed killer at a country-music bar late last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) door. He’s coming out this door.

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MACCALLUM: And awful, and just chaotic. And people hugging each other outside and trying to get out of there, it’s just so disturbing. And tonight, we are learning that the suspect, a former machine gunner and veteran of the war in Afghanistan sent a myriad of mental health warning signals.

He appears to have suffered from PTSD. According to the sheriff, he was once referred to a mental health crisis team who released him. Jeff Paul is live at the scene in Thousand Oaks, California with what we’re learning about the suspect and a possible motive tonight. Good evening, Jeff.

JEFF PAUL, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Martha. Yes, we’re just getting an update from investigators here near the scene at the Borderline Bar & Grill. Investigators telling us that they do not believe the suspected shooter worked with anyone else, and they don’t believe there are any ongoing threats.

Police have spent a lot of time not only here at the scene, but also at the home of the suspected shooter, 28-year-old Ian David Long. And investigators have taken out several boxes of evidence hoping to get a better idea of the mindset of the suspected shooter.

They say while they’re still poring through all that evidence and facts, the big unknown right now is the why?

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CAPT. GARO KUREDJIAN, VENTURA COUNTY SHERIFF’S OFFICE: It would be premature for me to speculate on the motivation. But I can assure you that we will follow all the leads that are developed through witness interviews, evidence recovery, the forensic evidence, any digital media that we recover, and we will be sure to paint a picture of the state of mind of the subject, and do our best to identify motivation.

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PAUL: Investigators were also asked about that possible PTSD that the suspected shooter was going through. They said they didn’t have any sort of medical records or weren’t aware of any sort of medication this suspect was on.

We’re also learning that the medical examiner’s office could be releasing some new names here shortly of victims who were inside the Borderline Bar & Grill and died inside. One of those names, Cody Coffman was confirmed by his family. His father speaking earlier about this unimaginable loss.  Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASON COFFMAN, FATHER OF CODY COFFMAN: I don’t know what to tell to the other people, I don’t know how to console or what to say to the other people that are going to be going through the same situation as I am. I am so sorry for their loss, as well. I am — I am speechless and heartbroken.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: Now, a longtime Ventura County sheriff’s sergeant Ron Helus, he was with the law enforcement agency for about 29 years also died responding to the call. He was the first one on scene ran inside to try to save some lives.

And if you ask anyone who knew him or worked with him, they say they are not surprised it was him who so bravely ran inside to help. Martha?

MACCALLUM: Jeff, thank you very much. So, one of the lives taken early this morning as you just heard, Sheriff’s Sergeant Ron Helus, a 29-year veteran of the force who was set to retire within this year. Sergeant Helus arrived at the scene, he ran towards the gunfire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEOFF DEAN, SHERIFF, VENTURA COUNTY: Sergeant Helus died at the — the sergeant passed away at the hospital at about an hour.

JULIE NOVACK, SHERIFF’S SERGEANT, VENTURA COUNTY SHERRIF’S OFFICE: Ron was an amazing guy. He probably should have retired a couple of years ago, he could have, but he stayed on because he loves the fight. He loved helping people, he loved protecting people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Sergeant Eric Buschow, works for the Ventura County Sheriff’s Office and was a friend of the sergeants — of Sergeant Helus. Thank you so much for being with us this evening. Sergeant, I’m so sorry for your loss of your friend. Tell us — tell us a little bit about him tonight.

ERIC BUSCHOW, SERGEANT, VENTURA COUNTY SHERIFF’S OFFICE: Thanks, Martha.  You know, he was a cop’s cop. He — you know, like you heard in those other interviews, he was — he was the guy that was going to be the first one in the door. He actually spent years on our SWAT team. So, he had that specialized training, and he was a firearms instructor, a defensive tactics instructor.

I mean, he was always just training, keeping that edge, and just truly selflessly served this community. I mean the people of Thousand Oaks really owe a great debt of gratitude to him, not just for what he did yesterday, but for what he’s done for the majority of his career which was spent right here in Thousand Oaks serving this community. He was an outstanding investigator.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: The true hero.

BUSCHOW: Yes, yes.

MACCALLUM: And you know, according to reports that I read, he — you know, called his wife as he did several times throughout the day as most police officers do, to check in right before he went into this scene, and it’s a tragic, tragic loss for all of you. And probably, some lives saved due to his heroic efforts.

I want to play this is a Sheriff Geoff Dean on an incident that happened back in April with this alleged shooter. Watch this.

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DEAN: In April of this year, deputies were called to his house for a subject disturbing. They went to the house, they talked to him. He was — he was somewhat irate, acting a little irrationally. They called out our crisis intervention team, our mental health specialists who met with him, talked to him and cleared him, didn’t feel that he was qualified to be taken under 5150.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, how — what does qualify someone under 5150 to be taken?  Because it feels like this is a scenario that we see far too often. We saw it in Parkland where the police were called 27 times to that house. At what point is it OK to say, this person needs to be in some sort of mental hospital?

BUSCHOW: That is — so in California, 5150 has very specific criteria.  So, we as peace officers go to calls like this all the time. And only a psychiatrist or a peace officer can place a 5150 hold on somebody. And it’s essentially an involuntary commitment for a 72-hour psychiatric evaluation. And the person has to be either a danger to themselves, a danger to others, or gravely disabled. So, if they don’t meet that criteria, we can’t take them 5150. And so —

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: But didn’t his mother say that she was terrified to live in the house with him, and he was constantly bashing himself and things into the walls? Those are the reports that we’re hearing.

BUSCHOW: You know, it’s a fine line. At that time when the officers were there, the deputies were there and evaluated him. And the crisis team went and evaluated him as well. And those are mental health professionals.  They determined he didn’t meet the criteria under 5150.

And to give you an idea — I mean, we deal with a lot of homeless people out here in California and a large percentage of the homeless population are mentally ill, as well. And being mentally ill, and maybe displaying bizarre behavior doesn’t qualify under 5150. They have to be, at that time, a danger to themselves either by behavior or expression.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Right. I hear you. I hear you.

BUSCHOW: And so it’s very specific.

MACCALLUM: Yes. And there’s a number I heard earlier tonight that one- tenth of the number of people who have mental health issues who — you know, in the 1950s were hospitalized, only one-tenth of that population is now.

And there’s a lot of good reasons for that in many ways, and there’s been a big effort to allow people to be at home and to be mainstream. But I think, when we watch these things play out, there’s a lot of reevaluation that needs to be done about all of this and questions that need to be answered perhaps to allow your folks to, you know, be able to take more action in some of these cases.

It certainly wasn’t — you know, I’m not putting the blame on anyone. I’m just saying it’s time to rethink perhaps, and I am so sorry for the loss in your force, and we thank you so much for being with us tonight, sir. Many thanks.

BUSCHOW: Thank you, Martha. Appreciate it.

MACCALLUM: So, the numbers just jumped again in Maricopa County, Arizona where they are still counting votes in the race for Senate. Martha McSally versus Kyrsten Sinema. Believe it or not, that race just got even tighter.  Sinema now ahead by 2,106 votes. There was a 17,000 vote spread.

They’re at 48.91 to 48.8. Martha McSally, tweeting earlier today that it was like, like the last visit she took to the dentist’s chair where she want to race by, I think, about 196 votes in Arizona. So, she has been down this road before, and we will be following all of these tallies as they come in tonight.

So, there is outrage seething from Democrats who say that Mueller’s Russia probe is under threat after Attorney General Jeff Sessions’ outing. But Senator Lindsey Graham just met with President Trump, he believes that is a false alarm.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, R-S.C., SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: I am here to tell you and everybody else that Mr. Mueller will be allowed to do his job and hopefully that investigation will come to a conclusion here pretty soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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MACCALLUM: Trump administration one step closer to a commitment made last week to deny asylum if immigrants crossed illegally into the United States.  It’s a response to the first of several migrant caravans that are now about 600 miles out from the southern border. Trace Gallagher has our story live from our West Coast Newsroom with that report. Trace, good evening to you.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Martha. The administration announced the new asylum measures today. But the presidential proclamation won’t be signed until tomorrow. What this means is that President Trump is invoking emergency national powers just like he did for the travel ban back in 2017 to limit the number of asylum claims.  The way will now work on the ground is that migrants including those in the caravan who crossed the border illegally would be banned from applying for asylum. The only asylum claims accepted in processed would be those filed at legal ports of entry.

That’s a significant change from U.S. and international rules stemming from the 1951 Refugee Convention that allows foreign nationals to surrender themselves and apply for asylum anywhere in the U.S. Those asylum seekers would then have to prove they are subject to violence and persecution in their home countries because of race, religion, political opinion, or social grouping. The problem with this new enforcement measure is that potentially thousands of migrants could be stuck at ports of entry waiting for their claims to be heard and the administration does not have an answer on where they plan to house those people.

On top of that U.S. immigration detention centers are already maxed out.  And it’s not like this new policy means we’re starting from square one.  Over the past five years, the U.S. has seen a 2000 percent increase in aliens claiming asylum. As of six days ago, more than 200,000 asylum cases were pending. That’s a backlog of several months and those delays greatly increased the odds that Caravan members will try to cross into the U.S. illegally. Many illegal immigration activists have already come out opposing the administration’s announcement and as soon as the President signs the proclamation, we can expect legal challenges to quickly follow.  Martha?

MACCALLUM: We’ll see where that goes. Trace, thank you very much. So protests, of course, is primarily American right of freedom of speech, but threatening someone’s home and throwing yourself against their front door until it cracks is wrong and it must stop.

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AMERICAN CROWD: We know where you sleep at night. Tucker Carlson, we will fight. We know where you sleep at night.

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MACCALLUM: When civility is breached, we should all be very concerned about what is happening in America. Bill McGurn, and Anita McBride on whether this is something we’re supposed to get used to.

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AMERICAN CROWD: Tucker Carlson, we will fight. We know where you sleep at night.

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MACCALLUM: We know where you sleep at night. Creepy right? Frightening scene from an angry mob of Antifa protesters who descended last night on the home of our very own Tucker Carlson. That happened the night after this happened in the White House at a news briefing. Tensions boiled over at the White House between CNN Reporter Jim Acosta and President Trump. An exchange that got so heated it ultimately led the White House to revoke his Press Pass.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM ACOSTA, CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Mr. President, I didn’t — I was going to ask one —

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: That’s enough.

ACOSTA: The other folks —

TRUMP: That’s enough.

ACOSTA: Pardon me, ma’am. I’m — Mr. President, Mr. President, I have one other question, if I may ask on the Russian investigation and are you concerned that you may have —

TRUMP: I’m not concerned about anything with the Russian investigation because it’s a hoax. That’s enough, put down the mic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So there’s just two examples but we’ve seen a lot of this kind of thing as you all well know. So what is going on in our country? Here now three people who saw the President and the press up close during the Bush years, Bill McGurn and Marc Thiessen, both served as speech writers, Anita McBride serves as an assistant to the President and Chief of Staff to first lady Laura Bush. Welcome to all of you. Good to have you all here this evening.

MARC THIESSEN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Good to be with you, Martha. Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Anita, what went through your mind when you watch that exchange between Jim Acosta of CNN and the President yesterday?

ANITA MCBRIDE, FORMER ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, I looked at that and I said my goodness, we’ve come a far cry from when I first started working in the White House when Ronald Reagan was president and Sam Donaldson would lob an insult from time to time at him because you know, the press didn’t like how controlled Ronald Reagan was with the press. He was a master at it. And he would sometimes evade their questions or use his characteristic humor to just move on. And this was you know, obviously well beyond anything I’ve ever seen. It’s just not right. I feel bad for the President, for the media, for the public, for the White House really.

MACCALLUM: I mean it was — it was crazy in there yesterday and you saw that moment Bill McGurn where the President kind of stepped back to the podium like let’s take a breather here, you know that. Let’s all just take it for deep breaths because this is really not — it’s going off the rails essentially. And a lot of people defending Jim Acosta today, Bill McGurn.  What do you think?

BILL MCGURN, COLUMNIST, WALL STREET JOURNAL: Look, I think — I think it’s possible to be aggressive in your questioning. I think reporters should be aggressive while being polite and not rude. And I think in addition to not listening to the President when he said it’s enough, he had a — he had a question, he’s taking up time from other reporters that are waiting there.  I think it’s an amazing that we have to — we have to even debate this.  Again, I think the White House may have overreacted. If I were President Trump, I’d be paying Jim Acosta to sit there in the front seat because I think it makes them all the press look bad. If I were the other people in the room, I’d really be angry.

MACCALLUM: Yes. Marc Thiessen, you know, really, Michael Goodwin wrote about this New York Post today. You know, there was a time when — it’s not — the story’s not supposed to be about the reporter, the story’s supposed to be about the story, and sometimes it does feel like some reporters enjoy being the story.

THIESSEN: Oh no doubt. I mean, I think Jim Acosta intentionally provoked this confrontation. I mean, we need to recognize that Jim Acosta isn’t really a reporter. He’s a liberal pundit masquerading as a reporter. And so he intentionally asked a provocative — you know, we got this historic moment where the — where the president has to confront Nancy Pelosi in a new Democratic majority. There’s a million questions you could ask about that. Instead, he asked a provocative question about the caravan and they’re calling it an invasion because he knew that Donald Trump would respond. And when Donald Trump responded —

MACCALLUM: But Marc, you know, I mean, Marc, he would obviously take great umbrage from what you just said about it.

THIESSEN: Sure.

MACCALLUM: But he also would say that you know, that the President was wrong, that it’s not an invasion, it’s a you know, it’s a caravan —

THIESSEN: But that’s a — that’s a —

MACCALLUM: — it’s not a threat the southern border and that he’s pursuing a story that he thinks is very important.

THIESSEN; And as — and as a liberal pundit, he is — has a right to that opinion. But when you say to the President I’m going to challenge you — the job of a reporter isn’t to just to challenge the President, it’s to ask questions and make — and report news. And the fact is he wanted to have this confrontation because then we’re all talking about what — how brave Jim Acosta is for challenging the evil Trump Administration and how mean they’re being to him. And so when the Trump administration pulls his press pack, they’re just giving him oxygen. They’re giving him what he wants which is the attention because he’s not — he’s not a journalist. This is a ratings ploy on his part and it’s working.

MACCALLUM: All right. I got asked you very quickly. Anita McBride, you know when you look at what happened at Tucker Carlson’s house, your thought on where this is all going.

MCBRIDE: Oh my gosh, I mean, I live close by that neighborhood and you know, there’s a public elementary school, there was a lot of little kids in the neighborhood and I just thought this is — this is crazy. But you know what, people who are in a position that have a voice like Congresswoman Maxine Waters who encourages people to disrupt people’s lives, you know, you can see where we were just — we’re down a really bad path and it’s just not right.

MACCALLUM: It is not right.

MCBRIDE: Yes, exactly. It’s scary.

MACCALLUM: And there’s obviously an investigation ongoing and there were cameras there as you can see so hopefully they’re going to figure out who’s behind this. Thank you all. Great to have you here.

MCGURN: Thanks, Martha.

THIESSEN: Thank you.

MCBRIDE: Bye!

MACCALLUM: So is the White House ready to handle a potential investigation onslaught courtesy of the newly elected Democrats. Judge Ken Starr who led the impeachment investigation into President Bill Clinton coming up next.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Has he done anything wrong? No. But let’s impeach him anyway. And they also said, let’s impeach Justice Kavanaugh. Let’s impeach him. And after him, we are going to impeach the vice president. We are going to impeach Mike Pence. So, let’s — let’s impeach the president, and then we will impeach the vice president. These people are sick. And you know what? And they have to get their bearing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Interesting moment from yesterday. President Trump on what may be ahead for his administration and under a Democratic controlled House, will it be a repeat of the ’90s when independent counsel Ken Starr investigated both the Whitewater controversy and the Monica Lewinsky scandal.

In the eyes of voters, Republicans overplayed their hand by impeaching President Clinton in the House and paid the price during the midterms.

Here now, the man in the middle of all of it, Judge Ken Starr, former independent counsel under President Bill Clinton. Judge, good to have you with us tonight. Thank you for being back on the program this evening. Good to see you. What goes through your mind when you hear that sound bite from President Trump yesterday?

KEN STARR, FORMER UNITED STATES SOLICITOR GENERAL: Well, I hope everybody will lay down their arms and begin singing peace at last that it is time to align–

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: That’s likely, don’t you think?

STARR: Yes. It’s just. Honestly. You know, the people’s house, you expect there to be a lot of raucous talk and so forth, but you are not hearing talk coming out of the Senate. Now I know the Republicans will continue to dominate in the Senate, to control in the Senate.

The Democrats are going to be filling their oats a little bit, but it’s really time for we, the American people, maybe not from of these districts that have elected members of the house who have a very, shall I say, super progressive agenda, including tear this house down and why don’t we just make life miserable for people as opposed to, what do we do to make the country better? What do we do to pursue our policy initiatives?

Let’s have disagreements with the Trump administration on the merits. But here’s the thing, the Constitution is so well-crafted in this respect, the people’s house can do what the people’s house choose to do by a simple majority, right?

Now 31 Democrats did support the impeachment of President Clinton, as I described in my recently published book, but now we move over to the Senate in the Clinton years and what happens. At that point, there is the sober second look, and even though there was no doubt that President Clinton had committed cries, serious crimes, perjury and the obstruction of justice, still the American people as a whole said, let’s have elections in this country, let’s don’t overturn elections.

We just had an election, we’ll have another election now in less than two years, let’s rely on the electoral process. The Senate requires a two- thirds majority to remove a president or any officer from office so wise by the founders.

MACCALLUM: Let me ask you.

STARR: Yes.

MACCALLUM: Let me ask you about Matt Whitaker, who wrote a piece saying that “It does not take a lawyer or even a formal federal prosecutor like myself to conclude that investigating Donald Trump’s finances or his family’s finances falls completely outside of the realm of the 2016 campaign and allegations that that campaign coordinated with the Russian government or anyone else.”

You know, you are also accused by Hillary Clinton and others of going outside of your purview. And we’ve had discussions about that in the past and you’ve talked about that in the past. Do you think that Whitaker is right? Because now there’s a lot of even state attorney general getting together and saying, that they believe he should not be in control of this investigation based on those comments.

STARR: Two points. First, the new acting attorney general said that as a commentator. He was not privy to the facts. What are the facts? And now he’s going to understand those facts. I don’t know the facts, but what I do know is that Rod Rosenstein has authorized this investigation.

And so, I think that now that he has taken the serious responsibility of being the attorney general of the United States, the acting attorney general, he’s going to take that sober, careful look.

He was a very good lawyer, he was chief of staff to the attorney general of the United States, and so he will be, I think thoughtful and careful. I think too much is being made of what he said as a commentator.

So, let’s wait and see but I do think that the calls with respect to should he recuse himself and so forth failed to take into account that there is a very elaborate and careful process in the Justice Department whereby, career civil servants who are experts in all matters pertaining to professional ethics will be guiding the attorney general.

MACCALLUM: We will see. Thank you very much. Good to have you with us, Judge Ken Starr. Lindsey Graham coming up next.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are we approaching a constitutional crisis?

SEN. JOE MANCHIN, D-W.VA.: I think we are on the verge of that. What raises my concerns, is a person who has been so vocal against the investigation that has been going on now being put in charge a day after the election.

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MACCALLUM: Democrats sounding the alarm after Jeff Sessions is pushed out as attorney general. Some on the left are calling for an emergency hearing on his firing as well as his temporary replacement, suggesting Matt Whitaker has been hostile towards the Mueller investigation.

Joined now by South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham, Republicans and member of the Senate judiciary committee who was also with President Trump today at the official swearing in of Judge Kavanaugh.

GRAHAM: Right

MACCALLUM: Senator, always good to have you with us. Thank you for being here.

GRAHAM: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: You heard the reaction from Senator Joe Manchin, and I will just remind you, as many have been reminding you today of what you said back in July, 2017. Here’s this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRAHAM: If Jeff Sessions is fired, there will be holy hell to pay. Any effort to go after Mueller could be the beginning of the end of the Trump presidency, unless Mueller did something wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So given where we are now, what do you say now?

GRAHAM: So when was that? What year?

MACCALLUM: July of 2017. Things have changed.

GRAHAM: So, what I have been — yes. So, what I’ve been saying for months is that everybody, every president deserves an attorney general they have confidence in and they can work with. I like Jeff Sessions, I’ve known Jeff for a long time. I hope he goes and runs for his old Senate seat in Alabama.

It’s clear to me it’s not working, was not working between Attorney General Sessions and President Trump. So, for months I’ve been saying, after the election, if the president wants to change attorney generals, he has every right to do so.

I spent most of the morning with the president, to my good friend, Joe Manchin, congratulations on winning your race, I am not alarmed at all about Mueller being interfered with. I think Mr. Whitaker was a good pick, I think he is going to be as fair as impartial as Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch were.

The bottom line is this is hysteria more than it is anything else. I am here to tell you and everybody else that Mr. Mueller will be allowed to do his job and hopefully that investigation will come to a conclusion here pretty soon.

MACCALLUM: Here’s what Nancy Pelosi said, she said, “It’s impossible to read Attorney General Jeff Sessions’ firing as anything another blatant attempt by President Trump to undermine and end the special counsel’s investigation.”

GRAHAM: Yes.

MACCALLUM: Did he give any assurances; did you discuss this at all today anything you could share with us with regard to that?

GRAHAM: I am highly confident that the attorney — the interim attorney general is going to honor the ability of Mr. Mueller to finish his job. I hope he will do it sooner rather than later.

And Nancy Pelosi is looking this, at this through the eyes of somebody who hates Trump. That finds evil at every turn. That’s the San Francisco perspective. I can assure you, if the shoe were on the other foot, and this was a Democratic president wanting to pick a new attorney general, nobody would say much about it at all.

MACCALLUM: Is there any chance that Matt Whitaker, who as I’m sure you have been, you know, hearing about, has said a few things that have raised eyebrows, in terms of the scope of the investigation. He had said that it shouldn’t go outside of the campaign, it should not extend into the finances of the Trump family. And of President Trump, he just, you know, thinks that that’s out of the purview of where this investigation has gotten.

Is there anything in what he said in the past that concerns you about his ability to be the interim attorney general, or indicates to you that he has any intention of limiting this investigation in any way?

GRAHAM: Absolutely not. The point he was making is that the special counsel doesn’t have writ-at-large. He is confined I think to his mandate not less to investigate whether or not the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians during the 2016 election in an illegal way. Whether or not there was any obstruction of justice. Not to look at every deal that the president had as a private citizen before he became a candidate. I agree with that.

But here is the point. Mr. Mueller, I think is in the final stages of doing his report. I have a lot of confidence in Bob Mueller. I’m going to meet with the interim attorney general, Mr. Whitaker next week, and I’m going to have him assure me that he is going to let Mr. Mueller do his job, and if there is any interference, he will be the first to hear about it on Fox News. I don’t think that is going to happen. I’m not concerned about that. If I were, I would tell you.

MACCALLUM: Do you think that Mark — that Matt Whitaker is going to be an interim attorney general as he is right now, or that it’s possible that he could keep that position? I guess, look ahead to the confirmation process for me. A number of names that have been put out there.

GRAHAM: Right.

MACCALLUM: Chris Christie, Pam Bondi, Trey Gowdy, also mentioned on that list. How do you see this working out?

GRAHAM: I’d hate I to have to choose between those three because they’re all such good candidates. I talked to pretty good at length with the president about the attorney general’s election. He deserves someone that he trusts, that he has confidence in, but the American people also have to have confidence in this person and they got to get through the Senate.

We are going to have to increase majority in the United States Senate. I don’t expect many Democrats to help. You know, everybody who is talking about Jeff Sessions now on the Democratic side all voted against him, so this is just politics. Joe Manchin to his credit voted for Jeff Sessions.

So there are a lot of names, and you mentioned three. There’s a lot more than that. May be Mr. Whitaker makes his way on the list, I don’t know.

But I do know this. I voted for Holder and I voted for Lynch because I think every president deserves the ability to make qualified appointments including Donald Trump. Brett Kavanaugh was qualified by any measure. What they try to do to him was despicable. So, I’m going to stand by this president’s ability to make selection of his choosing.

MACCALLUM: Yes, you know, I wonder if you think going through this process of a new attorney general could turn into a similar thing than what we saw in the Kavanaugh investigation, or do you think that the election that we saw this week has maybe changed some people’s minds about how to go about that.

GRAHAM: Well, the second kick of a mule normally doesn’t help you. If you don’t realize by now that the effort to destroy Brett Kavanaugh by liberal Democrats on the judiciary committee actually destroyed Trump’s state Republicans, then you are not really paying much attention to what happened.

So, there will be a pick by the president, he will have the same right as President Obama and every other president, to pick somebody that he has confidence in and they have to get confirmed. If they try to do to the attorney general what they did do Brett Kavanaugh, then it will backfire as it did with Kavanaugh.

MACCALLUM: All right. Before I let you go, as you know, after the midterms, the day after pretty much the midterm–

GRAHAM: Right.

MACCALLUM: — the presidential 2020 race sort of begins.

GRAHAM: Yes.

MACCALLUM: And Michael Moore, I don’t know, you know, if you listen to much to what he has to say–

GRAHAM: Yes.

MACCALLUM: — but you know, everybody pretty much weighs in at this point.

(CROSSTALK)

GRAHAM: I follow it closely.

MACCALLUM: I am sure you do. So, he thinks President Trump is a tumor on our democracy. That was one of the nicer things that he said. And he also has some suggestions for who he thinks should be the candidate in 2020. Listen to this and let me know what you think.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL MOORE, FILMMAKER: We have to run a beloved American.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

MOORE: We have to run a beloved — Obama became beloved from the night of that convention and he was beloved from that moment on when he gave that speech. So, we need to have to run somebody–

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have (Inaudible)?

MOORE: Whether it’s got to be like Michelle Obama, or it’s got to be (Inaudible).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: What do you think about those ideas so far, senator?

GRAHAM: The Michelle Obama is a very talented person. I’m sure she would be a formidable candidate. It’s going to be hard to beat Trump. One of the reasons President Trump is doing so well is because of people like Michael Moore who remind us at every turn what would happen if you put the Democrats in charge. People like Michael Moore would have a bigger say in your life. Not many people are jumping up and down at the idea that Michael Moore will be a frequent guest to the White House.

MACCALLUM: Well, but he is feeling pretty good because he looked at the midterms and says, you know, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin all turned blue.

GRAHAM: Yes.

MACCALLUM: Those are formidable changes that we saw in the midterms in terms of 2020. A quick thought on that for me.

GRAHAM: I think President Trump is going to be hard to beat. Midterms weighed, basically defied expectations. We actually grew the majority in the Senate. Name one time that has happened, maybe once in the last 100 years. And the losses in the house were a lot less than historical.

So, I’m ready to govern, and I’m ready for 2020, I’m all in for Trump. And here’s my advice for the Democratic Party, keep listening to Michael Moore, he will steer you in the right direction.

MACCALLUM: Senator Lindsey Graham, always a pleasure, sir. Thank you very much. Good to see you tonight.

GRAHAM: Thank you. Thank you very much.

MACCALLUM: So, you know him as the host of The Next Revolution here on Fox News but did you know that long before Steve Hilton successful career on TV, he served in a high-ranking position in Britain’s parliament that abruptly ended over his views on Brexit. The untold story of Steve Hilton, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TRUMP: Mia Love gave me no love and she lost. Too bad. Sorry about that, Mia. And Barbara Comstock was another one. I mean, I think she could have won that race. Those were some of the people that, you know, decided for their own reason not to embrace, whether it’s me, or what we stand for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: That was President Trump reminding some of the losers of this weeks’ election that elections have a consequence. It’s a lesson our politicians seem to be learning a lot these days.

Back in the Brexit days, Prime Minister David Cameron found himself on the wrong side causing a deep breach with a close friend and a member of his administration, ultimately.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CAMERON, FOMER BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: The British people have made a very clear decision to take a different path. And as such, I think the country requires fresh leadership to take it in this direction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: But a man named Steve Hilton viewed his bosses’ shellacking more like an opportunity to restore power to the people. Tonight, Steve Hilton shares his untold story of what he calls positive populism.

STEVE HILTON, FOX NEWS HOST: We were really good friends, and I know that word is used a lot in politics, but we were very close family friends. I was godfather to his first son, who actually was born with really severe illness and sadly died when he was pretty young.

So we were very close, came together over that. David Cameron is the godfather to one of my children. So, you know, our families spent a lot of time together. But then, we, and I was very much with him as he rose and became a leader of the party, but then we — the Brexit vote happened, and we took a different side, and that was the end of that. We hadn’t spoken since then. That was two years ago.

MACCALLUM: How does that feel?

HILTON: I’m sad about it. I know why that happened. He thought that it was a very personal thing because his fate as prime minister was so connected to the outcome. And so, I think he took it as a message that I would put this ideological position over the E.U. ahead of our friendship, but I didn’t see it as that.

I didn’t see why we couldn’t be friends and disagree but he said no, I thought if we lose this than I am out of a job and you helped make that happen.

MACCALLUM: You refer to yourself as a crazy blue sky’s thinker. And in fact, there was a character based on you–

(CROSSTALK)

HILTON That’s right.

MACCALLUM: — in a TV show.

HILTON It was the precursor actually to the show Veep. That’s done very well over here. It’s the same people and the same kind of thing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes! My, God, that is so great for me!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the country?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, that’s what I meant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Tell us, you now, you went to work at 10 Downing Street bare foot?

HILTON: Yes. It’s really weird. The British press, they got fixated on a bunch of things that I thought were just completely normal but they thought we’re like just very odd. One of them was I rode my bike in London. You know the traffic is terrible and I rode my bike every day into 10 Downing Street.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

HILTON: Every single day, the photographers were outside, took a picture of me around the corner on my bike. It’s like the same thing every day. Why are you doing this? Maybe I had a different t-shirt on, but it’s the same picture.

The other thing was the, the inside of 10 Downing Street, if anyone has been there, they will notice it’s like a, it’s actually literally an old aristocratic house. The downstairs, the cabinet room, the prime minister’s office, that’s where my office was. You got this plush carpet, and soft, it’s very homely actually because it used to be a home. So, I just felt at home.

And you would walk around, I would take my shoes off just like you do at home. I never have thought this was really weird. They were reporting on so much that when people came in for meetings, business groups, or outside or other civil servants, or whatever it may be. They would literally I could say they were looking to see if it’s true.

MACCALLUM: Well, they’re very proper people.

HILTON: And they would look and see, has he got a shoes on? And I remember one time doing a like some event, I was addressing a bunch of people in Downing Street some meeting or something, and they literally one of the people said, you’ve got to take your shoes off, they will be disappointed. They think of you as the no shoes guy. You got to take them off.

MACCALLUM: And what TV show based the character on you?

HILTON: That was called the thick of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stewart, you’re out. You are going to pickled in a think tank.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course, I am, Mary Anne. And whose authority is this coming from?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Le Pen (Ph). Whilst acknowledging the need for thoughts, is keen on actions, these days.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Do did David Cameron ever say to you, you know, Steve, you’ve got to put on a tie and shirt and a jacket?

HILTON: Never! No. In fact, when I was there, President Obama was in the White House and they all came over for a state visit and I don’t think it was the president, but someone, maybe it was David of someone, they saw me wandering around and it was reported back to me that the president said, who is that beach bum?

MACCALLUM: You don’t have a cell phone.

HILTON: Yes.

MACCALLUM: And you are an anti-tech guy which is something I truly appreciate about you. You’re much more courageous than I am. I would love to ditch my phone. How do you communicate without a phone for the last six years?

HILTON: Well, Yes, six years. Pretty much soon after we moved here. Well, it started by accident. It wasn’t a plan. I had a phone which is from the government, I had to give it up. I came here. I couldn’t find that exact make. So, I just bumbled around and tried various things and then I just got fed up with it.

And I realized after a week of not having a phone, not by planning it, I just — it happened to be a week, I thought, that was actually really great. Give me time to think. And then I gave it up for a few months and then it became a conscious decision. You know, I still use e-mail. I have a laptop. But the point about that, is you can connect when you want to. You can decide.

MACCALLUM: So, what you do when you’re driving somewhere and you’re completely lost and you don’t have Google maps and there is no such thing really as pay phones anymore?

HILTON: That’s right.

MACCALLUM: It’s not even easy to find a paper map?

HILTON: So, I do a lot of research. So, I literally I look it up before I go. And I think it makes me much–

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Like we used to do.

HILTON: I used to do. And I literally draw bits of — I draw maps and I draw the instructions. I write the instructions on a piece of paper. I think it makes you more aware of where you’re going and what you are doing.

MACCALLUM: So, have you ever just completely stranded?

HILTON: Sometimes I have to — I literally have to walk for a mile, literally miles to find, to try to find a hotel or something that may be able to call me. It’s cool.

MACCALLUM: And you are also a no tech, low tech parent.

HILTON: Yes.

MACCALLUM: You have two boys, right, and they have no phones, no computer screens, no nothing.

HILTON: No. I mean, they use computers at school.

MACCALLUM: How old are they?

HILTON: They 10 and seven. No, they definitely don’t have anything like that. No iPad, no — I mean, we watch — we watch things consciously as the years have gone on, I kind of feel like I do want to actively campaign for it. As I see what it’s doing to society and parents and the relationship with their kids and so on, I’ve got more militant about it. So, I think I might start pushing in that direction.

MACCALLUM: You’re revolutionary.

HILTON: There you go.

MACCALLUM: As they say.

HILTON: Exactly.

MACCALLUM: There he is. All right. We got another update on these numbers coming from Maricopa, Arizona. Democratic Krysten Sinema is now up by more than 8,000 votes. There are more votes to be counted there, so that one has us on the edge of our seats tonight, as we watch the Senate race in Arizona. Stay tuned for that.

That is our story on this Thursday night. Thanks for being with us this evening everybody. Good to have you with us.
 
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